No, it is not. The world is full of people that don't know the tool, refuse to learn the tool, and blame the tool for those shortcomings. .

@sullybiker Agreed. Not everything has to be for everybody. We've already went through that for the past 20 years or so, and after two botched Windows releases and planned obsolescence of hardware by the current release, it still won't matter to those particular users.

@claudiom I'm all for making things better, but also that includes educating the end user, which is critical.

@sullybiker Absolutely. I mean, even your run of the mill Windows user or Mac user doesn't educate themselves enough to know how to resolve a problem, so why is the focus on Linux for these same things such a big deal?

@claudiom The saying that Linux and BSD let you do very stupid things in order to also be able to do very clever things is absolutely true. It's freedom, but the cost is eternal *vigilance.

*Constant education

@sullybiker Basically, "with great power comes great responsibility."

@claudiom @sullybiker Confession: I'm not going to read the article, but I can surmise what its saying.
In my opinion, there needs to be one Linux distro that is universally recognized as the "never-will-be-used-by-a-technical-user" distro.

ChromeOS stands behind their software but if you root it (there's a Google-advertised process for that) they say all bets are off. That's a good model.

Similarly, if you drop to the terminal, all bets are off.

Otherwise, the details of how software is installed and maintained (ie, traditional install, snap, flatpack) should be transparent to the end-user.

@fikran Actually, it recommends that all mainstream distributions implement failsafes(?) for end users that can't be bothered to read the fine manual or even a short warning. The warnings were transparent to the user, but a "proceed at your own risk" is available in an oddball event the user wants to do that.

Problem is that *some* mainstream distros are geared to those who are more technical (Arch, Slackware, etc.) and don't need such handholding bloat or limitations.


@claudiom @sullybiker I can see myself screwing up my machine nowadays. I have been a Chromebook-only guy for a while I can see myself not reading the fine print and breaking something when I jump to Manjaro or OpenBSD on this lappy...

@fikran I actually did this with my PinePhone when I changed repo trees in the sources.list file. It still works, but I need to redo it. And that's fine, because I'm just tinkering with this device! However, I wouldn't do anything dangerous on my Fedora laptop which I use daily. Same with my OpenBSD laptops. If something were to go wrong, at least I have stuff backed up. Problem is even if you make it easy for the end user, they don't back up before things go wrong. @sullybiker

@fikran The point is educating the user, as @sullybiker said. Otherwise, you're just treating the symptom and not curing the problem itself.

@claudiom @sullybiker I don't agree with that, respectfully. The software should conform to the user, not vice versa.

@fikran If we were to conform to the user in terms of driving, I'd be afraid to go outside! We take driving lessons to understand how to drive a vehicle and what the traffic laws are. It should be the same with computing. You have to meet half-way IMO. It can't be either of the extremes. @sullybiker @stsp

@claudiom @sullybiker @stsp Right! I wouldn't go to an extreme...but I'm just saying, I would err on the side of "fixing" issues done by a large number of users. Assume as little knowledge as possible and zero command linery ever.

@fikran @claudiom @sullybiker Just having seen how Nautilus will happily allow non-command-line users to copy a set of files to a USB stick which lacks sufficient space to host all the files and produce an incomplete copy, I agree that such things should be fixed in the UI. ("Hey, what you are trying to do here will not succeed, proceed anyway? y/n"). Such changes would not harm power users in any way, rather it will save them time because other people won't need to ask for help to fix the problem.

@stsp Yeah, I remember that as well. Made you go through the process of copying all for nothing. Not sure if that's since been fixed even in Caja and other Nautilus forks. I'll have to check in MATE. @fikran @sullybiker


@claudiom @stsp @fikran I've seen this on a few things, I don't think it's ever been fixed.

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